Friday, December 2, 2022

CREDITS changes in DARK NEBULA

As explained in a previous blog post about Hydrogen, the DARK NEBULA update will rework many aspects of the currency economy to address fundamental core problems in the game. While not as far reaching as the Hydrogen changes, the Credit changes will also affect many systems and will be quite visible in daily play.

These are the key problems that mandate a rebalancing (and in some cases, redesign) of Credit sources and consumers in Hades' Star:

  • Income is not properly balanced across all available activities. In the early Hades' Star game, doing Shipments was the *only* way to earn Credits. Things have changed a lot since then, and there was never an effort to properly balance income so that all activities are incentivized properly. New players are given a ultimatum pretty quickly: Do your shipments or leave the game. In Dark Nebula, we will be changing the early game to make it obvious there is more to the game than Shipments.  
  • Progressing through Red Star levels over time is very inconsistent and frustrating. There was never a proper balance of planet upgrade prices vs total Empire credit cap. As a result, most Red Star levels are very slow to reach, and some are inconsistent with how long it took to reach the previous Red Star level. This chaotic, uncontrollable progress is seriously hurting the player experience, causing many more players to quit early. Dark Nebula will focus on making the process of reaching a new Red Star level more predictable and more rewarding. This includes significantly speeding up the progress at least for the first 6-7 red stars. 
  • Module upgrade prices are inconsistent as they try to control two very different things. They try to control regular module progress, and also trying to prevent unlocking modules too early from trading higher level Artifacts. So regular players are being punished with prices that should be much lower i.e. to upgrade an RS7 module to level 2.
  • Consuming Credits is not properly balanced. In an ideal world, players would have interesting choices every day into whether to put their daily income towards planet upgrades, module upgrades, ship upgrades, or whether to risk any Credits in dangerous star types. This does not currently happen in the live version of Hades' Star, because the values were never properly balanced with this in mind over years of gameplay. An example is many players who never get into any form of routine with planet upgrades, because they don't have the Credits to upgrade planets all the time, or when they do have the Credits, all available planets are already upgrading. With Dark Nebula, we will be taking the time to balance the daily experience properly. The effect will be seen not only in things like Credit and Module prices, but also the time it takes for planets and modules to upgrade.


Over the next months in Early Access, we will be moving to address the problems above via targeted and carefully monitored changes. Here's what some of these changes may look like. As always, keep in mind that while the problems above are not changing, the proposed solutions below will be tweaked and may change significantly or be abandoned based on how they work out in actual playtesting.

Daily Credit income in the game will be re-distributed among the major sources (Shipments, Objectives, Blue Stars, Red Stars). The actual redistribution will keep getting tweaked, but in general expect the following: 

  • Proper participation in Blue Stars will become crucial for maximizing daily income. Proper participation does not mean winning, and it also does not mean showing up without trying. If you completely ignore Blue stars, your daily income will be hurt. This is a very intentional design decision, and is supported by other changes such as giving guaranteed daily rewards in Blue Stars, removing the previous feeling of gambling with your daily income. Combined with other upcoming changes such as rebalanced and much more meaningful combat modules, Blue Stars will become far more exciting to play, even for casual players who never expect to win.
  • Shipments will stay vital to maximizing daily income, but perhaps slightly toned down compared to the other sources. The base Credit values stored in shipments will be reduced, especially at higher levels. The potential for generating very high Bonus values on the shipments via Modules will be increased, especially at higher levels. This way, keeping all Transport modules upgraded will become much more important for getting the maximum daily rewards from shipments. 
  • White Stars will no longer offer any Credit income. Credits is not the right incentive for people to participate in White Stars, especially because White Stars is by far the least accessible mode in the game and clearly not for everyone. Removing Credits from White Stars allows us to properly and fairly rebalance Credit income for everyone, whether they play White Stars or not. The new White Star rewards we are designing separately will allow everyone in the Corporation to get some benefit when the Corporation is doing well in White Stars, without at the same time requiring everyone to participate in White Stars.  
  • All planets will now be upgradeable to the same maximum level. The system where most planets are arbitrarily capped to low maximum levels does not really serve any gameplay reason, and is creating bottlenecks that make it more likely for players to have frustrating dead periods where nothing is upgrading. 
  • Installing Modules on ships will no longer cost Credits. Instead, the base value of constructing a ship in the first place will increase, greatly so for higher ship levels. With the changes in ship destruction rules, this will allow players to optionally risk Credits in the new Dark Red Stars for higher rewards, without having to worry and compare about the cost of individual loadouts. Creating loadouts should be 100% focused on functionality, not cost. 



27 comments:

  1. All these changes are in the right direction
    Not having to worry about module installation costs is very good to allow experimentation and to encourage different builds depending on the drs layout
    Just a suggestion give some sort of rewards to ws players it does not need to be something big as it will encourage them to play more

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  2. It is clear to me that you have put a great deal of though into these changes and they are very well planned out
    Kudos to you and your whole team
    Just one question
    How will you stop lower level players from unlocking modules that should be available to only higher level players?

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  3. We appreciate all the work, however there are so many changes it is effect making this version a different game. Can we keep the old game available as version 1?

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  4. Always good to hear from the dev team and even more interesting is to see how much they read our comments and work on trying to implement them in the best possible way

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  5. 음.. 귀찮은 행성 업그레이드가 더 늘은거 같기도하고..
    선박 터졌을때 귀찮은 모듈 새롭게 다는것도 괜찮았는데.. 그과정조차도 하데스유저로는 좋았어요
    너무 간소화 시키는방법은 재미를 떨어트릴수 있을것같아요
    ps : 워프레인허브 갯수좀 늘려주세요
    행성전체에 연결로..

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  6. Shipments already feel like tedious drudge with barely enough reward.

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  7. 'No credits in white stars because Was are not everyone's cup of tea", but "must do blue stars to get credits" even though they're not everyone's cup of tea 🙄🤦‍♀️

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  8. Yeah not convinced by the having to do blue stars to "maximise income" shipments already don't give enough credits for the time that can potentially be put into them...
    why are you removing mods then just creating drones that do the same thing? Either remove the mod or leave it, stop making us jump through hoops that weren't there before as in sacrificing artifacts or relics for repairs or a rocket... On that subject, why isn't there a time warp drone, everything else is getting a drone, just not time warp... Seems like it is a good way to balance this mod without removing it entirely as you could then have the cooldown for this mod locked out from any time warp influence.
    What incentives will there be for ws if there are no credits to come in from them, whilst not a main source of income it does allow for meaningful upgrades at times when credits are a bit tight.
    I like the idea that planets are now all capped to the same level, will actually allow for faster progression at times and also the free mod swaps is a good idea as well, but there just seems to be a bunch of random changes that seem to be aimed at narrowing the field of mods that are viable rather than expanding them in your view.
    Also I put a comment on the previous month's post about module balancing that seems to either disappeared or not posted entirely. Are you stripping it for ideas? Hence why I'm mentioning this now...

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    Replies
    1. comments get vetted before they appear!

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    2. There wasn't anything unsanitary in it! 😂😂

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    3. I think the thing that I take umbrage in is this update is going to shake the game up so much it's sucking the enjoyment out of it at the moment... I have no idea what to put credits into as so much is changing, planets, mining, eco, ws, mods, rs, bls, it's literally an overhaul, which isn't a bad thing, but at the same time it seems to make any progress or plans made right now are utterly pointless or are made redundant in just a few short weeks.
      For example, I made a bit of progress planet/cap/shipping wise in preparation for the update and these changes just seem to make all of that time and effort a waste...

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  9. To be fair, blue star can be played as long as the player wish to, but white star not so much as at least 9 more players are required.

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  10. The most I read about Dark Nebula, the most I feel every change is going in the wrong direction. It's now 3 years I'm playing Hades Star almost every day. My only question today is ... will I stop this game right now, or will I continue until I'm no longer able to play the old version. But clearly Dark Nebula is not for me.

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    1. How can you say that before the changes are finalized? Wouldn't it be better to at least give it a try?

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    2. And what do you think I'm doing. I just tried no later than yesterday. And every time it's getting worst. Not only is new graphism ugly, but now playability of modules is just becoming stupid. I could survive with deletion of time warp (I even didn't develop it, preferring other strategies). But in fact they are removing everything that was popular. Finally I've decided to stop Hades Star right now. I won't invest any more time in a game which has no future. And I'm not alone, we had a lot of discussions in my corporation (level 9), and all the members are now leaving. Some were playing from the very beginning. All of us had very different strategies about modules and economy. But we all agree on one thing : we are all unhappy of the changes. I don't know what public the staff wants to attract, may be they are wishing to go into pay-to-win, as this was one of the last clean games regarding that. I don't know if they are reading this, but this is a strong alarm signal. They are killing a good game.

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  11. Hi! This is all very interesting, but when are you going to fix matchmaking? Constantly playing against people with ships and modules i only have about half the credit cap for is a pretty miserable experience. Why does the game lock players into a match it must know is horrendously one sided? Would be better to just fail out.

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    1. Matchmaking will always be a function of who is playing at the same time you are searching. You personally may think it's better to fail out, but no match at all is worse than a bad match. What is even better than both (and is what Dark Nebula is doing) is PvP modes that do not unecessarily punish you for losing, give you the right opportunities to outsmart stronger opponents, and stay fun even when you lose against stronger opponents.

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    2. Lol good luck with convincing people losing is fun bud

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  12. OK, here's an idea that might work, might not and fair play, but oh well here goes.
    Each planet up add an amount of income say this player has enough planets that that income could be 1mil credits and 200k hydro per day (arbitrary amount, not fixed each planet can add to this amount or reduce this amount if the player is lower level) you then can earn that income per day, HOWEVER you want to, be it running endless blue stars or running red stars and such. Running shipments can give you bonuses on top of that daily income, as in you can earn over that amount with mods/boosts on transports.
    This would give all players a fixed amount that, depending on their actions and choices, affect their daily income in the game. Obviously you can still mine hydro in your home system that can add to this daily income for hydro if you want to run another rs for arts or another blue for the last bit of daily hydro income.
    Obviously there would have to be a system in place for reducing shipment values or the like to stop players earning their cap in stars then running a shipment run to get over that value, but it would mean that each and every option is a viable one whatever route you choose. You want to increase your income for that next mod, you're going to have to do a shipment run to get it faster, need more hydro, run a blue, need arts run a red and you get a reward from. The arts, but not all together. Increase your cap and income, you need to up your planets which would work nicely with the new level caps you want to work in

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    1. Ws would supplement this income OUTSIDE of the daily limit to incentivise ws

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  13. There is something that bugs me a bit in Hades Star and... It ends to be the same in Dark Nebula: modules classification and their usage. It is absolutely normal that "Remote Mining" can only be installed on a Miner, that "Cargo Bay" can only be installed on a Transport or that "Barrage" can only be installed on a Battleship but... In Hades Star, the support modules seemed to be a classification where everything in there can be installed on every kind of ship. I don't understand why in Hades Star, we can find "Rocket" or "Fortify" or "Alpha Drone" as they obviously are combat modules. At the opposite, I fully understand why "Red Star Life Extender", "Repair" or "Teleport" are support modules: they are not explicitly bound to combat nor mining nor transport. Well... In Dark Nebula, those are bound to a particular type of ship and I think it lacks a bit of coherence.
    So... In my opinion, we should have Transport, Miner, Combat and Support/General modules only. Shields are, in my opinion, Combat modules. Drones? Why not. And we should only have one type of module that does one thing. Two repair modules (one as a Drone and one as a Transport one)? No.

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  14. You may want to consider having credit for WS in the event of Nova loss. Some Corps will 'demand' that their players stay out to the end to attack/defend or mine to get the last bonuses, but the player will lose their ships on Nova. Maybe not full cost of what was lost, but say 85% returned of lost value. That way new lower players are not completely turned off if they lose ships, same with hard core Corps vs non hard-core - makes it less painful a loss.

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  15. Hi there!
    What bugs me most in DN is to have to face Lone Battleships equipped with Vengeance (whatever level, but mostly 6+), Dart weapon, or whatever deadly modules, in Blue Stars, when I'm only rs 5, and so unable to research this type of module 😱.
    You're trying to make us understand that bls can be a way to earn credits. Okay. I'm not asking for something easy, but this is just an unfair match, and it ain't funny at all 🥴

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  16. To be honest, I like this publicly discussing changes, but its still clear that the devs are only trying to fix issues they have created and in this process are risking their entire userbase.

    Dark Nebula could be just a new game with all the fixes they want while leaving hades alone.

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    1. Nothing would kill the existing playerbase faster than "Choose between keeping your years of progress in a game that will never get any updates, or start over a brand new game with the same activities but orders of magnitude better in every single aspect".

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